(Actually I’m more likely to cheat than to grind, but I guess that’s besides the point)

Bob

8. Grind can provide an optional alternative to skill: A game (such as Deus Ex oder Gran Turismo) in which success arises from the combination of player and character skill can use grind as a manual dynamic difficulty adjustment.

On the other hand, why should less skilled players be forced to grind? Sounds like punishment to me.

Bob

Bob: you raise two points that are so good that I wish I’d put them in the article. I’ll add them now:

6. Simple, repetitive tasks can be soothing. And you’re right that the line between soothing and boring is fine (and not the same for all players) — but there is a line, as mentioned in “isn’t too boring” in the original post.
7. Grind can improve pacing. This is closely related to #1 (slows content consumption), but from an important new perspective.

gamers are easy to please

Indeed! If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be gamers. But I propose that there would be more gamers if games had less (bad) grind.

In most RPG I played[...] when you went to the next dungeon, the monsters there were a real challenge. I just now play Gran Turissmo 3 and it’s the same principle: I have to do the same races for quite some time[...] so I’m ready for the tougher matches.

I disagree that these two examples refer to the same phenomenon: unlike classic RPG uplevelling, repeating tracks in Gran Turismo improves your skills, not your character’s. Therefore, Gran Turismo forces you to train, not just grind. As you say, forced training is often good in twitch games, because otherwise later, harder levels would be frustrating… but that’s beyond the scope of this post.

Sirko: Your points on gold farming, etc. are well taken. “If people would rather use a bot than play your game themselves, it isn’t a good game” sounds like a good motto to me.

As to the success of games that seem to us to be terrible: I don’t really understand it either. That makes me nervous — maybe what I think is a better game is actually not what all of those millions of players want!But I hope, as you do, that, while they are satisfied with what they have, they would appreciate something more interesting, as long as it doesn’t require too much of their time.

I feel very addressed by your words “plagues the game designers conscience. And I’d like to add some more aspects.

First of all, the pure grinding lures professional grinders like the gold farmers in WoW. Because if it is work, time wasting and boring, of course some people offer you to do it for you. This aspect drives especially hard, if your games grinding is so simple, that even a bot can do it. This way, it destroys your game if you run it subscriptions based, and your business if you run it micropayment (which I guess you do according to which big companies affiliate you are

Another aspect I like to put the spotlight on is, like the first comment adresses: it works. Everytime I look at copies of Monstersgames, like bitefight, gladiatus, legend, gondal or the newest one, artyria, I wonder how much money they make with how many players with such a “bad” principal. The game developer in me still scratches his head about it and winks “I press a button for work, and than I can’t do anything else? Come back tomorrow to play again? Hello?!” But: it works.
Although, I think if you make it any bit better, you can drag all the players away to your game. So making it more interesting, less uninteractive, less repetive, really works. Even the tiny change of showing your fight, work, whatever with a little animation makes a signifant difference.

At all, I think with online games today and tomorrow, Game Designers are challenged to beat themselves in a competitive race for the best balance of the different player types. Not wasting time and making it simple for players who dont have time, like “Push this button to grind for 10 hours.” Also offering senseful game action at anytime for every player who whenever likes to spend more time “You already hunted for ten hours. Your basic hunting grounds are empty. Go and look yourself for additional bounty” (which maybe makes 100% of what you got by the automatic grind if you do it till you can push the button again. Hence a small bonus but still a reward.)

In summary, I am very confident that you find a way to at least improve the meaningful play of grinding. I doubt you can get any way around it.

Although I didn’t yet play any MMORPG, I found it to be fun and exciting to battle monsters in The Bard’s Tale, just to get enough experience to gain a level. The trick is to have the right balance. In most RPG I played, the experience needed for the next level increased exponentially. So although you sometimes had to hunt monsters to advance, after rising to the next level it didn’t get you anywhere to kill the same simple monster again and again. And when you went to the next dungeon, the monsters there were a real challenge. I just now play Gran Turissmo 3 and it’s the same principle: I have to do the same races for quite some time, to collect the money for pimping my car, so I’m ready for the tougher matches.

And gamers are easy to please. They will accept some experience as a reward. They will be excited to see a new monster. And they will be completely enthrilled to get in a new dungeon. The joy of opening a formerly locked door is the main reason I play games. But it has to be “work” to get the key.